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August 04, 2011

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John M

All the Real Girls is also...have you watched it recently? It's a little silly, even if you've been through multiple bad breakups.

Haven't seen Bellflower yet, but the arc seems to be guy falls in love, guy gets dumped, guy gets super-angry about the break-up. Seems to be a stage missing here...? Not to be a story-whore, but, well, that ain't much of a story. Is that what's considered radical here? That there's simply no descent back to earth? On the one hand, yes, it's literally imbalanced, which is always at least a little interesting. On the other hand, the other side of the equation is being left out. Which some might interpret as dishonesty.

"Lemme tell you a little something. There's this nail sticking out of my floor, and I stubbed my toe on it today, and it hurt so fucking much, and I yelled and yelled." Okay...thanks for telling me. (It helps if the storyteller waves his arms around a lot.) It's a lopsided take that heavily privileges the guy's pain (partly self-inflicted) over his own growth or responsibility. The hope is that the audience ends up hating that nail as much as the dude does.

Omission is fine, of course, and can be engaging in its own way, but it's still omission.

I'm not sure I'm making sense anymore.

MattL

Just saw Bellflower and I have to say the character is angry that his girlfriend cheated on him but that does not make it misogynistic. In fact, he does nothing in the movie to hurt her. In this way I find the movie more about a betrayed lover having dark thoughts. I could see a film that has a woman fantasizing the same about a man who cheated on her and I wouldn't call it a man hating movie.

Yes, the movie is a complete male-Id fantasy that puts forth some dark stuff. But I don't find it woman hating. In order for it to be that you would have to say the writer / director of the film was in fact a misogynist and I don't believe he is at all.

And note the woman's betrayal is nowhere near as bad as a good many noirs of the 40's, some of which one could call misogynistic since the woman characters are rarely sympathetic and often evil.

Steve

Isn't burning Milly's possessions, which the protagonist repeatedly fantasizes about and finally does (over the closing credits) a way of hurting her?

chris schneider

Not only do I agree with David Ehrenstein's comment -- *big* surprise there, I know, I know -- but I would add (with SPARTACUS in mind) that just 'cause you like snails doesn't mean that you hate oysters.

This equating of gayness and misogyny is unnecessary and not at all accurate.

Glenn Kenny

I was going to let David E/'s comment lie, but since Chris S. is pressing the issue....Jesus H. Christ on a cracker. You can call me out for using crass shorthand if you want, but your eagerness to take offense when everybody else in the known universe understands that there's a universe of difference between "gay" or "openly gay" and the phrase "closet case" is really irritating. If the characters in BELLFLOWER were openly gay, misogyny wouldn't even likely be an issue, would it? My point was that the two fellas clearly have some kinds of feelings for each other that are not fully acknowledged, and that their ultra-het behavior could be seen as a form of overcompensation.

Pete Hinton

I never cease to be amazed at how corrupted and encrypted the English language has become. This "Glenn" character is either on a narcotic, suffers from paranoid disillusions, or has an imagination that drifts so far under, above and beyond human comprehension as to be totally useless and a waste of our time. It not only "screams" at us in its uselessness, it has many of us wondering what has happened to the "logic" in the English language! Would anyone, other than me, be willing to attempt to translate his comments into understandable English? (I am a professional interpreter and translator, and a mental health professional, but it is impossible even for me to render something so meaningless and imbecilic into something understandable and sensible, especially lacking any content from which to start. I'm sorry, but when there is no content, there can be no interpretation, much less understanding and comprehension! Since I have nothing with which to work, I have to apologize. It is impossible for me to make it understandable. (And please don't apologize to him. He gave you nothing with which to work!) How could you possible formulate a coherent response to something meaningless, and why should you apologize?! If he were to attempt to reconstruct his paradigm, using a human heuristic, I'm sure, with time, I might be able to encounter meaning. (At the same time, I could simply find myself wishing for a full battery of psychological tests, which may, or may not, clarify the problem with which we are dealing. And, finally, "tongue in cheek", I may have actually demurred to a mere imitation of the ill-conceived offering to which I respond (calling into question my own wisdom or lack thereof!)

Oliver_C

"Gay men do not hate women."

"Breeders" is an expression of affection now, is it?

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