« William Fraker, 1923-2010 | Main | Greetings from scenic Long Beach Island, New Jersey »

June 04, 2010

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

hisnewreasons

Okay, at this point I should remind myself that this is Kenny's house. Only he gets to say who has to leave. So I apologize for taking a privilege that wasn't mine.

As for you, Nolte...I can only sigh. Roy Edroso uses the word 'fag' all the time on his blog, but he's clearly describing the attitudes of homophobes, not being a homophobe. I took that other comment in the same vein.

And as I pointed out, you voted for Prop 8 while announcing "But I'm your pal, gay folk, really I am!" I don't think I could 'learn' you a thing. Because I ain't that sensitive. And I surely ain't that patient.

John Nolte

@everyone: Just think of what a better world this would be if those outraged by those outraged by a child rapist -- were just as outraged by the actual child rapist and his defenders.

Here are your choices:

-You can be outraged by a child rapist and his rich, powerful, politically-connected celebrity defenders. Or...

-You can be even more outraged by those named above than the actual rapist and his powerful celebrity defenders. (which isn't to say you're not outraged at Polanski's behavior, you just spend more energy attacking us for being outraged than those who want to see him given a pass.)

But I am trying to understand the sensitive, progressive nuance in all this. Or is it irony, like when one of YOU calls someone a "fag?"

I'm simply not sophisticated enough to keep up with your intellectual excuses for what to us simpletons looks pretty craven.

Glenn Kenny

"So funny because it is so true."

It's not irony, John. Not even close. Not even Alanis Morrisette ballpark. You can make fun of "profressives" or progressives or whoever all you want, but that doesn't make you right. It's just hate, and dementia, and you actively manufacture it.

I'm not kicking you out, but I respectfully request that my other commenters simply stop feeding this troll.

"So funny because it is so true."

John Nolte

Glenn, you're picking on a typo. How adorable. Almost as adorable as "go to hell" and "not even close."

I sit here chagrined.

You need not ask me to leave. I just came over here to defend myself. Got blind-sided by an email alerting me that my name was being trashed.

I wouldn't have even considered stopping by and throwing a few jabs if you hadn't called me into the ring.

Carry on, No-Longer Gregarious Glenn. Carry on.

Jeff McM

I'm so glad that I can learn here, without having to go to Big Hollywood, that John Nolte is a stupid, intellectually dishonest rageaholic with a victim complex.

(Sorry to feed the troll, but I had to get in there somewhere.)

John Nolte

@Jeff MCM If I was able to learn you something, then my work here is done.

Yours Forever,
Stupid, Intellectually Dishonest Rageaholic With A Victim Complex

Evelyn Roak

-"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers."

-"Paranoids are not paranoid because they're paranoid, but because they keep putting themselves, fucking idiots, deliberately into paranoid situations."

from "Proverbs for Paranoids" in GRAVITY'S RAINBOW -Thomas Pynchon

John Nolte

@Evelyn Roak:

-"Let's rock."

From "an episode" of MARRIED WITH CHILDREN - Al Bundy

ptatleriv

Um... I had a point before it was derailed by Some Guy. It was that most public conservative mouthpieces these days can't hold an articulate, respectful debate. That they resort to blustering ad hominem attacks and strain gnats while swallowing camels. I think that was my point. And it's now been made for me, both here and at MUBI. So... never mind.

Glenn Kenny

Hmmm. I couldn't just let the "Comments" count read "69," could I? That would be weird. So here I am.

SO. We could let this thread die, or stir up some new shit—something along the lines of "Paul McCartney is my new favorite Beatle" or something. I trust many of you have already read BH contributor Warner Todd "I has a bucket/Oh no they be stealing my bucket" Huston's scintillating pensées on the topic. No?

Forget about it. I'm gonna get some dinner. Night, all!

brad

boy, this blog can be so incredibly educational. Once again I'd like to thank Glenn for keeping the comments free to be what they may be - now I know what "Big Hollywood" is (i'd never heard of it, because i'm not a right-wing paranoid whackjob) and that some guy on the internet who goes by the moniker John Nolte is an insufferable prick who engages in the most insufferable right wing whackjob habit of trolling on the internet by simultaneously snidely deriding and caustically dismissing ANY topic/argument/joke/comment that doesn't pass the Ann Coulter test. What an enlightening experience this thread has been!

Should I call someone a fag so John can continue to cite it has proof that all liberals are closeted homophobes while the right just care too much and are simply misunderstood friends of everyone?

Ed Hulse

Thank God progressives never resort to "blustering ad hominem attacks." Oh, wait....

Glenn Kenny

Hey, Ed, I don't think you'd find a progressive on this thread who wouldn't/couldn't admit that ad hominems are overly prominent in almost all realms of discourse, political or not. And I'm obviously no angel in this department myself. But for Nolte to willfully misread a perhaps improperly-executed joke from a commenter (I believe that Buckley referred to Vidal as a "queer" rather than a "fag"), interpret that as an intolerant ad hominem, and then hide behind the "irony" defense that he so clearly disdains or doesn't understand when presented with actual, incontrovertible evidence of the twisted hatred he actively solicits on the website he edits is just...well, too rich. And then when he's called on it, he changes the subject, trying to portray his sick commenters as righteous crusaders for justice because the rest of us haven't been sufficient in our condemnation of Roman Polanski...and then affects to storm out in a huff. A masterful performance, really. If we were living in a reenactment of "Marat/Sade," which for all I know we may be...

christian

John, your absolute lack of a substantial reply again belies your proud ignorance. And I would love it for you to revisit post 9/11 when the Pentagon came a'callin' to Big Hollywood and pick filmmaker brains about terrorist scenarios. Jeebus, are you that willfully blind?

Tom Carson

You know what I think is funny? If I were Jafar Panahi (fat chance), I'd be feeling SOOoo good right around now.

Look, it's simple. When someone's your ally on an issue you care about, questioning his or her motives is bullshit. It means you care more about your own purity/vanity than getting the job done. I may have all sorts of objections to Ted Olson, say. But so long as he's fighting what I call the good fight for gay marriage, I ain't gonna distract him by bitching about Bush v. Gore. That's for another day.

In this case, what any of us could do to help Panahi stay free is pretty murky. But that's no excuse for this circle jerk. What in hell are all of you thinking?

bill

@ Tom - Hear, hear.

LexG

Hey, this blog rules.

This kinda stuff never goes down at Poland's anymore. And Wells usually puts an end to it all too soon, plus he banned Nolte, which was a bad idea; Plus McDouche and Christian are all over the place here, my TWO FAVORITES!

If Glenn could regularly post pictures of Kristen Stewart and Dakota Fanning, this could be my new favorite place.

Glenn Kenny

@ Tom and Bill: Boy. You two are tough.

What was I thinking? I'll tell you what I was thinking. An hour and a half ago, I was thinking, "Hmm, this soft-shell crab special looks good." So when the waiter comes along, I ask for it, and he makes that face and says, "Oooh, sorry, we're all out of that," which he might have had the wherewithal to have pointed out when he handed over the specials printout in the first place. "Yeah," he explains, "the crabs were a big hit tonight." As if I thought maybe that the reason they were out was because they had escaped, or something. Trying to be helpful, he then says, "The Mahi-mahi is good. That's a fish."

Hey Tom, remember in Toronto when we saw the first 40 minutes of "Baise-moi" and Panahi's "The Circle" in the same day? That was fun. A more innocent time, when the world was young, and stuff. And then remember how, as "The Circle"'s commercial fortunes languished, "Baise-moi" became this sort of success de scandale in New York, which meant I had to see it again, in its entirety, because I didn't feel ethically correct in condemning it based on only a partial viewing? Boy, what a schmuck I turned out to be, huh?

Okay. I'm tired and crab-deprived. Nighty night, fellas.

Evelyn Roak

John, my apologies, I posted and had to run out, not realizing you were so quick on the draw. Granted, it was a pithy response, but still, had I been able to get into the witty repartee, a veritable Hepburn-Tracy for the some came running crowd, well, missed opportunities, what can you do?

As for your response…what can I say? All you have done is enacted exactly that which you have wished to deny. I had given you the benefit of the doubt in perceiving your willful ignorance to be just that, willful, but I’m afraid I gave you the benefit of a doubt you didn’t deserve. Granted it was under the idea of willful ignorance, your favorite rhetorical style, that you proved your actual ignorance, but, hey, you learn new things every day. I know you thought it was funny, or even worse a beneficial rhetorical style, to ignore the substance of a discussion in favor of your pithy response. I mean really? I liked Married With Children as much as the next guy but your pretend quoting is just sad. And an even greater crime, not funny. For fuck‘s sake you in your idea of joking significance enacted the very thing I critiqued you for. Are you really that much of a fool or is just your false understanding of irony?…I wasn’t quoting just to do so…there was actual substance in there…you chose not to actually read it, a you have routinely (and as I said I thought it was part of your rhetorical style…now I realize it is a rhetorical style that masks your stupidity ((more to come)) ) but let me throw one more at you: “Stupidity is the deliberate cultivation of ignorance.”---William Gaddis

Tom--I know it is easy to come in at this late date and be the moral voice of reason, and you are perhaps correct in what you say, but really? Clearly this has moved far beyond any discussion of the director of CRIMSON GOLD and become a much sadder farce. To be the moral arbiter at this point just rings hollow. And sad. And way too settled ground to be staking a moral high ground upon. I think you know that.

Tom Carson

@Glenn, dear friend: I'm chagrined if you thought my comment was directed at you. I didn't have any quarrel at all with your original MUBI post, since the Rizov vs. BH kerfuffle was already out there and I thought your rundown on the whole thing was judicious and funny. And once the comments snowball started, well, it's your blog, so you're gonna jump in. I just wish your wrapup MUBI line on the subject -- "futile, spurious arguments must be played out; and each side must assure itself that its self-righteousness is better than their self-righteousness. And none of us are in jail, whoopee!"-- hadn't turned out to be so, ah, predictive.

@Evelyn Roak: Sorry if you thought I was playing the Joe Lieberman card. I came in late for the simple reason that I've learned I'm better off staying on the sidelines in these SCR brawls. Then I got appalled enough by the thread's swerve into "I know you are, but what am I?" ad infinitum that I jumped in anyway. So much for that, but I think you must have meant to say, "Clearly this has moved far BENEATH," etc., etc.

bill

Yeah, Glenn, I wasn't reading, or agreeing with, Tom's comment as a jab at you. And if anyone HAD asked me "What's Glenn thinking of?", I would have said "Soft shell crabs, or their absence." So that's pretty impressive, I think.

Glenn Kenny

Guys, please don't be even a little bit chagrined...I'm not. I was just funnin' with the two of yas. And good morning to you both. I'm going down to breakfast now. Claire and I are scheming to strike it rich and buy a big house on LBI where we can host all our pals, and you will be among those kept abreast of any developments in this project...

Evelyn Roak

Tom-My apologies. That whole misreading tone on the internet and all. Not to mention John Nolte succesfully playing his cards in getting one into full on deriding people on the internet mode. Lashing out far too widely. Oh well, sorry about that. Sometimes one needs to take a bit more care, in this instance I failed at that.

hisnewreasons

To Tom Carson --

You know what's really sad? I make a comment about how OT this thread has gotten and then I contribute to the OT. When Nolte tried to accuse other people of homophobia, I basically saw red. Black Narcissus Red. Suspiria Red. Cries and Whispers Red. (Just trying to get back to the original notion of this blog.) I hope that I've made it clear why I took such offense, but I was clearly throwing table scraps to the smelly fellow under the bridge.

Let me repeat my old point -- on some issues why is not as important as what. Of course, Nolte and Simpson don't help things by effectively making themselves the issue again with their overheated heads and willful misreadings. They could have just said, "Even if what you said is true, does it matter? And, by the way, thanks for flogging this issue too, Vadim." In their confusion between self-promotion and activism; their obsessive beefing with celebrities and anybody who criticizes them; their belief that media attention is not a tool, but a right -- they resemble, in fact, a narcissistic Hollywood activist.

Which is a minor point, but not a major one. It's just that, to borrow a line from Carson, some people are bigger assholes when you do agree with them.

brad

I'm terribly disappointed in you dearest Evelyn. Not one 'Fuckwad" for Nolte? Not even an "Asshat?" tsk tsk....


:)

ptatleriv

brad - Let me do the honors: Nolte and his BH goons are fuckhats, asswads, blowhards, and boohoos. Which all might be forgivable had they A SINGLE THING TO SAY.

I had been blissfully unaware of their site (and yet, somehow, aware of the Panahi petition) up until this little kerfuffle. I hope to remain so in the future. They and their Fox News compatriots are major contributors to the destruction of conservatism's proud intellectual legacy.

Evelyn Roak

Brad - Dare I learned a lesson? I tried for wit, probably failed too, but John Nolte's reaction to the Pynchon quote made me laugh, and not for the reasons he thinks...oh well. And Brad, you should take it as a compliment that I cared enough about your opinion to trot out the "fuckwad", some people just aren't worth the heavy lifting.

David Markson is dead and I just don't care enough about John Nolte to spend that energy while I am saddened over the death of one the finest writers of the last hundred years.

otherbill

David Markson died? Son of a bitch! This year is getting brutal. Time to reread Springer's Progress. Among others.

Evelyn Roak

Otherbill - Yeah. A bummer through and through. Of course not one news source is reporting it. I found out inadvertantly when my friend asked me how old he was, during a discussion of his work, and I looked it up this morning only to find out on wikipedia. A bizarre moment. I love Markson's work but it isn't like I'm having conversations with other people about him on a daily basis. See if there is an obit in the Times or anywhere else tomorrow...I'm not counting on it. But that says more about the state of literature these days.

Springer's Progress is a favorite of mine. Hilarious, touching, brilliant. The man can write about sex. And baseball jokes. And is one of the greatest novelists in capturing thought.

joel_gordon

That's really sad news, especially for a novelist who hit his stride so late in life and could have written several more great works. Wittgenstein's Mistress is my favorite--not just of Markson's novels, but of all 20th-century American lit. He was also a great booster of now-canonical neglected authors, such as Malcolm Lowry and William Gaddis. After the Celtics finish blowing Game Two, I might have to re-read a bit of WM before bed.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Tip Jar

Tip Jar
Blog powered by Typepad

Categories